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Forum:Kashi
Why was this changed to "Kāshī"? The Pope 03:18, January 4, 2010 (UTC) :Because Kashii isn't technically correct or better than Kaashii or others used so far. Kāshī stands in the middle and is essentially the same without the double letters. MasterDeva 03:27, January 4, 2010 (UTC) ::What is the precedent for other names/words that have two letters in a row? The Pope 06:06, January 4, 2010 (UTC) :::There doesn't seem to be a real precedent for Japanese names/words that have two letters in a row. It's more on certain points. For some, it's more on how correct they look. An example would be a character whose name is extremely foreign. An example would be Gedatsu, his name is foreign but it appears to be a reference to religion along with the rest of Enel's goons so it must be spelled as Gedatsu. For some, it's more on what they are typically romanized in typical Japanese like Magellan. For others, it's more on how recognizable they are. Example, if a character is more identified as Xiao rather than Shao then Xiao would be the choice as more people recognize Xiao. :::For the giant, I'm kinda more personally towards Kashii rather than Kāshī. One's a phonetic spelling of the name via simple letters while the other is a phonetic spelling that uses letters that aren't easily accessible. I'm also wondering, isn't Kashii more recognizable than Kāshī.Mugiwara Franky 15:38, January 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::Unfortunately there have been so many different names used for the giant that a single one doesn't stand out, I have even seen the name Karsee been used for one which is obviously wrong. MasterDeva 15:52, January 4, 2010 (UTC) :::::My argument against what we have now has already been mentioned; most users can't write this name. It was why I never pushed Oz to become Oor for that reason. :::::This is where Karsee comes from and it has the same Japanese text. There also (lol) Car-See which again has the same. Kersee on this page. :::::In fact from my in initial Google search "Karsee" is the most common Latin word that pops up. One-Winged Hawk 16:22, January 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::::In fact from the various words popping up "see" seems to be at LEAST how the ending should be. I've found nothing with any "i"s on it. "Ka" is definitely correct as well. Incidentally, by Google Karsee I can tell you that Karsee is also a surname by the looks of it of German origins by the number of German articles and what not popping up. Karsee also keeps cropping up on this bit about a religious page and "karsee = making". One-Winged Hawk 16:34, January 4, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Well that kinda confirms my point, too many names to be sure which one is correct with too many assumptions. On a different note Oz was better than Oor because r+s=z (at least in the greek alphabet). The new editors can spell the name as Kashi if they have any problems and we as can alter it as part of the maintenance done to the article. It isn't that difficult. MasterDeva 18:04, January 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Actually, it confirms at least the most popular romanization is "Karsee", just a few minor ones also appear and "Kashi" and "Kashii" never cropped up at all, therefore those two are unlikely. One-Winged Hawk 18:28, January 4, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::We need a translator in our team that's certain! MasterDeva 18:42, January 4, 2010 (UTC) For the Karsee results, were any of them about the One Piece giant by any chance? For a translator, we would definitely need one to help translate scripts and any Japanese words that would come up. For foreign Japanese names, a translator would also be a help but would only go so far. Also for using Kāshī as a compromise, I'm a bit stumped on the matter. I'm getting a bit tired looking for the word, copying it, and pasting it instead of writing it down right a way. That's just me though.Mugiwara Franky 10:52, January 5, 2010 (UTC) :That is not just you (even on a French keyboard we do not have the ā and the ī :-). What we have to think about, is the link suggest tool which, I think we agree, is one of the most usefull way to make proper links. I thought that it only works wrt the official page and not on the redirect pages (well I moan hundred times that it does not work for Miss All Sunday so I assume it works like that). :Indeed [[Kās proposes Kāshi, and [[Kaa doesn't propose anything. Hence, for practical reasons (no ā on standard keyboards), I think Kaashii is the best solution. Moreover (and I don't understand why) [[Kas proposes Kashii, which is none of the good romanisation. :For the Kar-see discussion, I'm not a Japanese expert at all, but wouldn't it be written カルシー　instead of カーシー ? Kdom 11:52, January 5, 2010 (UTC) ::It depends on how the Japanese text click. We've got this argument for Mihawk, "Dra" is normally written as "Dora" in japanese text but there are claims its "Dura" a VERY unfamilair case and from experience I've never seen Dura being used for "dra". But lets not go into that discussion outside of Mihawk's page, the point is that Japanese isn't always so simple, that is the problem. One-Winged Hawk 13:27, January 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Well, after some checks, it's true that the r followed by a conson is not put in katakana (アパート for appartement or インターネット for internet). My mistake Kdom 14:22, January 5, 2010 (UTC) :No, because the giant's name is written souly in Japanese. I can find him if I throw the Japanese text in, but not if I throw any of the preposed names in. Least not in Japanese, I can't find some in plain Latin text, but I'm not after THAT, I'm after references from Japanese sources here. So far the best I've come up with is "Ka" as in "kar" and "shi" as in "see" pronounced from the non-Japanese text. Nothing else crops up in that area and from what I've gathered, Oda's never supplied the name, our guesses are as good almost as anyone else's under the given circumstances. But I'm not a translator so I can only go by what google produces. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 13:27, January 5, 2010 (UTC) ::Checked and Stephen wrote "Karsee" as well. One-Winged Hawk 13:30, January 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Well are we going to resolve this issue? I've pulled up a "Karsee" translation from a translator. One-Winged Hawk 10:03, January 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::Guess Karsee can be since it kinda pops up frequently and Stephen uses it.Mugiwara Franky 10:27, January 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::Even though Steven has done a very good job with translations, names are difficult to work with. For example he has used Laura for Lola. On the other hand, Null have used Kaashii in their volume translations which is what we have now (Kāshī). MasterDeva 10:41, January 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::::What about Franky house translations and K-Fs, oh wait their not that far are they? I guess we should wait this out until K-Fs reaches that. In the meanwhile, does anyone care to list so far all the translations and supports so far? :-/ One-Winged Hawk 12:23, January 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::::K-Fs are still not there yet but I have found that One Piece HQ have used Kaashii too in their translations. MasterDeva 22:17, January 6, 2010 (UTC) I vote we have a...uh, vote. The Pope 02:07, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :Seconded! One-Winged Hawk 02:11, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :1 Vote for Karsee due to results.Mugiwara Franky 07:38, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :2. Kaashi as in the Shonen Jump December 2009 Issue. El Chupacabra 10:14, January 11, 2010 (UTC) : Kaashi. The Pope 14:10, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :Karsee or Kashii, but not the current one as its difficult to work with. There is no second "a" in the text so I don't support double A. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 15:56, January 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Kashii is clearly wrong so let's drop that. Karsee might be the case if it's a silent r (probably is). From what I have seen most translators have gone by the name Kaashii, including anime fan subs. Can someone provide a link for Kaashi please!? I have searched a bit but haven't found it. MasterDeva 17:37, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :::Hey MD, you shouldn't try to change people's minds all the time, if you have the evidence post it and let people make up their mind whats wrong. But an instant dismissal and "let's drop that" is not a very good approach to this. This is the same elsewhere and its beginning to look bad, as if you're trying to vote bully. I know your not, but the point is made whenever votes the most incorrectly to you you respond the same way all the time. :::Okay, final ultimatum called here; what does the ANIME say? Can yo find a Youtube link so we can hear the VA's pronunciation? The anime isn't perfect, but THAT might change minds, rather then a dismissal. One-Winged Hawk 17:46, January 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::Sorry that wasn't my intention that was more of a figure of speech than to force someone to change his vote. Sorry for not being clear/rude. As for the anime, I know it's not by all means perfect but if has helped before. I'll post some links about this soon. ::::PS: When have I tried to change peoples minds before and what do you mean!? MasterDeva 18:28, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::Just something I've noted. Either way, don't take it so hard, some of us aren't convinced with mere words that is all. Some of us are just waiting for the Oda-facts thats all and until Oda provides, we're not convinced there is a "close enough" translation. ;-) One-Winged Hawk 18:42, January 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I still don't understand what you meant... This, of course, is not final because this is a wiki and as information becomes available changes will be made that's common reason I believe. ::::::As Mugiwara Franky has said if multiple things point to something and it can be resolved with common sense and deduction then it is it (or something like that). ;P What I'm saying is to decide on what to choose wisely and not impulsively. In the anime a second a can he heard clearly every time his name is spoken. Something I noticed is that Kāshī's name has the long vowel mark (ー) twice at the end of its syllable, shouldn't that count as double letter? MasterDeva 19:28, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Oh I can't explain it anymore. I forget what I was going on about. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 01:09, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Now for the links: :::::::First time in the anime the name is said. :::::::Second time the name is said. :::::::Third time the name is said. Here's just the audio, for convenience sake. No idea how to embed it into the Wiki, though. The Pope 19:42, January 11, 2010 (UTC) ::You can’t because ogg player extension is not enabled.Tipota 20:12, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :That's more convenient indeed, yeah. ;) MasterDeva 19:47, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :::@Tipota: You beat me to it. We have no template to handle audio files whatsoever, to my knowledge at least. MasterDeva 20:20, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :The first part "kaa" or "Kar" could fit easily in it. "Shii" definitely sounds right. Theres a hissing sound in the second half but I don't hear a "h", if its there its either silent or part of the "hiss" pronunciation of the name. One-Winged Hawk 22:16, January 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Thinking about it "Kaa" and "Kar" remain suitable editions to the first and either is fine but I'd throw "see" out because of the "hiss" pronunciation and "shi" since the long "ee" sound doesn't match how a single "i" normally comes out in Japanese. One-Winged Hawk 22:19, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :::So...can we at least agree to disagree that it's either "Kaashii", "Kaashi", "Karshi", or "Karshii"? ::::Agreed! El Chupacabra 13:59, January 12, 2010 (UTC)